-Nor suffix from "Naur"

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maestro
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-Nor suffix from "Naur" Jun 23, 2020 15:33:45 GMT

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Post by maestro on Jun 23, 2020 15:33:45 GMT

Hello! New member, but I'm a huge Tolkien enthusiast and have been reading/using the website's lessons for awhile. I run a roleplaying campaign set in Middle-earth, and we were able to hold a (rudimentary, scripted) conversation in Sindarin, which was really fun! I'm sure we probably butchered it.

A friend of mine was asking opinions on naming a sword for his own game - he was going for something poetic, like "Foe-flame" and he suggested "Glamnaur." That sounded wrong to me, and I suggested "Glamnor" instead, because the "naur" root is transformed in other names - Aegnor, Feanor, Baranor. Another friend pointed out however that "Glamnor" because it combines two noun roots (enemy host / fire) would be "Fire of Foes" and therefore rather a negative, harmful thing.

I realized through this discussion that I wasn't entirely sure why the "naur" root shortens to "nor" - what rule of the language is being applied there? It doesn't seem like an ordinary soft mutation.

Xandarien
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-Nor suffix from "Naur" Jun 23, 2020 20:12:54 GMT

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Post by Xandarien on Jun 23, 2020 20:12:54 GMT

Hello! Welcome.

Although Glam in Glamdring is glossed as 'foe-hammer', Glam itself means 'din, uproar, yelling, bellowing (of beasts, orcs)'. So I'm not sure your friend would want Glam anyway!

The word for 'foe' is Gûd, or 'enemy' is Coth

There are many many rules around creating compound words and names, and one of them is how the diphthong AU is treated. If it's the final element in a word (like Feanor) the AU changes to an O. If it's in the first element of a word it can either be an A or an O depending on its history (like the word Narwain, January).

Ind ben-theled padatha vi said vyrn

maestro
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-Nor suffix from "Naur" Jun 24, 2020 3:13:08 GMT via mobile

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Post by maestro on Jun 24, 2020 3:13:08 GMT

Thank you! That explains it. I found the sidebar in the Names section that goes through all the rules. I knew it didn’t look right, but wasn’t sure why. Sammath Naur was the only name I could think of where the word root wasn’t modified. I do however have a follow-up question just to clarify that I understand the AU change.

The AU -> O change is only certain in the end of the word? If the compound is present in the beginning or middle of a compound word, it is treated differently based on the specific word. So the history of the original word being a long or short “A” determines whether AU changes to “A” (as in Narya) or “O” (in Glorfindel) depends on how the original root word was meant to sound? (naur from naro being long, and glaur from glawar being short?)

“Glarfindel” certainly doesn’t sound right, nor would “Norya”! I guess each time a word in question has the AU compound it needs to be interrogated to make sure it reflects its original sound as closely as possible.

Last Edit: Jun 24, 2020 3:20:04 GMT by maestro

Xandarien Administrator Lore-mistress Posts: 1,251	-Nor suffix from "Naur" Jun 24, 2020 9:54:29 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Xandarien on Jun 24, 2020 9:54:29 GMT Yes, AU is always an O at the end of a word. Looks like you've understood it all perfectly! Glarfindel does sound wrong doesn't it? Just not as attractive.
	Ind ben-theled padatha vi said vyrn

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-Nor suffix from "Naur"

Post by maestro on Jun 23, 2020 15:33:45 GMT

Post by Xandarien on Jun 23, 2020 20:12:54 GMT

Post by maestro on Jun 24, 2020 3:13:08 GMT

Post by Xandarien on Jun 24, 2020 9:54:29 GMT

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