Post by Bearer of the Word on Feb 19, 2016 22:30:57 GMT
I'm working on a name for a sword (this is an actual sword that I've forged in my spare time, but that's anther story!), and I want to give it a name in Sindarin. I've worked through the fantastic lessons available, but I'd like to check before I transcribe or etch a name that doesn't make sense! I'm fairly sure it's correct, but it never hurts to check with the experts!
The name I'm trying to translate is 'New Creation'. What I have so fair is Onnos gîr (which I've put together for Onnosgîr).
I'll break down how I came to this conculsion: Onna- is the verb to beget, and with the addition of the abstract suffix becomes Onnos, and what I think is something similar to 'creation'. This is the part I'm most unsure about.
Gîr is just soft mutated Cîr, or 'New, renewed'.
Is this correct? Sorry is this is a fairly trivial translation, but I'd rather get it right than be sorry!
The abstract suffix always creates the biggest extension of itself (not physically), so I would read Onna- + the abstract as 'something that has been begotten', which isn't really appropriate for swords! The first thing that came to my mind was the verb Echad- = to fashion, make. From this you can use the noun gerund Echaded = A fashioning, a making, a creation.
Echaded gîr/eden = A new creation (Eden just means 'New').
Post by Bearer of the Word on Feb 20, 2016 11:39:21 GMT
Thanks Xandarien, this is incredibly helpful. I'm going to have to have a think about this.
I should clarify one thing, however, that I didn't make terribly clear. When I say 'creation', I mean 'creation' in a cosmological sense; 'all of creation', or the universe itself. I think this would be 'Eä' as we read in the Silmarillion, but I'm pretty sure this is Quenyan, and I'm not sure if there is a Sindarin analogue.
I'm basically going along the lines of 'renewed-creation', or the universe post-Dagor Dagorath and the Second Music of the Ainur, or as in Christian Theology the hope of the second coming. I'm not sure if this helps.
Ah, that makes it completely different! Context is always everything
Eä is indeed a Quenya word, without a Sindarin equivalent, but sometime ago I spent quite a lot of time reconstructing a verb Enna- that means 'to exist in the universe as a creation of Eru', and I think this could be what you need here. Now interestingly, the abstract suffix on this would create the word Ennas which is an already existing word (it means 'there, in that place'). But what you could do is use the gerund again, to create the noun, giving you Ennad = An existence in the universe created by Eru. Does that come somewhat closer to what you were looking for?
Post by Bearer of the Word on Feb 20, 2016 20:57:55 GMT
Now we're talking! When you say 'reconstructed', what exactly do you mean?
This is much closer! I have some questions, although they are mostly academic; Ennad is perfect!
Regarding the application of the Abstract Suffix to Enna-, I have two questions. Firstly, if we neglect the fact that Ennas is already another word in Sindarin, what would Ennas 'mean'? I'm still not entirely clear on what the abstract suffix does to verbs; it makes them 'bigger', but I'm struggling to visualize how that would work in this case. Secondly, how much of an issue is it that the words are spelt in identical fashion; in English we have words that are spelt the same way, but the context dictates what they mean; Minute (Very Small) vs Minute (60 Seconds). The context dictates how we understand them. Could this not be the same in Sindarin, or is that not the case?
The word Eä comes from a root EN = Be, exist. I believe the reconstruction process was something along the lines of (it's a while ago): 1) Take the root EN 2) This was pronounced ENG (NG as in Sing), of which there was a Quenya verb Eä- = to exist, be, and a probable variant form éna/énna which was left unglossed (he didn't write down exactly what it meant, he did this a lot; he'd write down for example the present tense of a verb, then write the past and assumed that everybody knew it was the past tense formation) 3) Verbs when taken back to their original Common Eldarin are either just a bare stem (I-stem verbs like Cen- and Ped-) or a derived verb (with an ending that end in A or IA, like Beria- and Brasta-). I decided that I would go with the more numerous of the two, the derived, and added the A-stem ending (given éna this also seems more likely). 4) The phonetic development indicated that it would at some stage from Quenya -> Sindarin be ENGA-. NG in the middle of a word wouldn't happen like that, so it collapsed to NN, making it Enna-.
Abstract suffix: Some examples are Moeas = Dough from Moe = Soft, Bellas = Strength from Belt = Strong. It's a creation of a noun from an adjective, so the largest form of 'strong' is 'strength'. There are some attested examples from verbs (Gonathras = entanglement from Gonathra- = to entangle) so it's certainly possible from this verb. So what would the abstract suffix from this verb mean? Something along the lines of "existence in the world as a creation of Eru". Not vastly different to the gerund noun.
The problem with comparing Minute and Minute is that in English they're pronounced differently due to differing stress patterns. In Sindarin homonyms are pronounced identically at all times, so I tend to shy away from them. Tolkien did give us a few, but they're well known and I prefer not to create my own if I can. (If the phonetic development leads us to them being identical, then so be it).
Post by Bearer of the Word on Feb 21, 2016 19:51:29 GMT
Woah, thanks a million! That's super helpful.
Right now, I'm trying to work out a way to combine Ennad and Cîr into a name that doesn't sound too silly. Ennadgîr doesn't seem quite right to me, but you may disagree. How 'flexible' can you be with names? I thought about putting the Adjecitve first 'Cîrennad', but I'm not sure if that's allowed.
It mentioned in the names lesson that if the last letter of the word is 'd', you can replace it with 'th', but only if the second word starts with S or H. Obviously gîr does not, but I rather like 'Ennathgîr'.
Names are rather flexible actually, the two words can go either way round, and unlike normal Sindarin sentences, the adjective often goes first so you can certainly use Cîr before Ennad and make it Círennad (the long vowel shortens slightly).