I was reading through the new lesson with dual verbs (thanks btw, just managed to summarize verbs on two pages and then you go and do this ), but the example of Gerist i orn han w/ accompanying explanation is slightly confusing me, noting that you mustn't apply i-affection. Is this transformation particular to the vowel "A" in i-stems or does it have some impact on all others?
Edit: Additionally, in the case of "We both..." with two people including one's self, would it be preferable to use these verb endings or the normal present tense endings, or is it a case of personal preference?
Goheno nin, ach he ú-vebedin, Od 'ondrembor.
Last Edit: Mar 12, 2018 19:16:20 GMT by gondrembor
I think you might have misread it "note that the stem Gar- needs to change to Ger before putting the ending on due to the presence of the 'i' in the ending -ist". I'm just highlighting that you do need I-affection, and just using this one as an example.
Personal preference, but this is how I was going to teach it. If we use a meeting as our example - where there is a large group of people - here are some sample sentences highlighting the differences between the three endings: Len aphadam = We (all) will follow you (the whole army addressing their king OR more than three connected people) Aphadammid = We (not you) will follow (two scouts telling a third to stay put) Aphadangid = We (and you) will follow (a couple telling a third person to come too)
The dual ending allows you to make a rather fine distinction, it allows Sam to say to Gollum "Gwaedammid na Amon Amarth = We (not you) are going to Mount Doom", referring to himself and Frodo. It also allows two people within a larger group to single out a third without referring to the whole room, e.g. "Torthangid i neledh cyr = We (and you) wield the three rings", perhaps making a rather arrogant point as they sailed from the Grey Havens!
Just a snippet of dialogue from a practice story I'm writing, did I use the dual forms right?
..."Do you trust it not to be a violent bakery (place of baking)?" Do you know all of its history?" asked Merilliel1. Ithillin2 did not laugh, "neither of you know how to make me laugh3." Gondrembor4 raised an eyebrow5 of his, "but we both are laughing, is that not sufficient?"
..."Esteliog ú-de had bastad vregol? Istog i 'obennas bân dîn?" mabent Merilliel. Ithillin ú-lalas, "ú-istach nin lalthad." Gondrembor ortha chembinn dîn, "ach lalammid, sa ú-far?"
1)F. Meril + Riel, Rose-garlanded maiden 2)M. Ithil + glîn, Moon-glinted eye 3)Laltha-, to make laugh, trans. reconstructed form of Lala- 4)M. Gondren + paur, Stone-like fist 5)Hembinn, Eye-Ridge, reconstruction of Hen + Pind
Edits: sorry, can't seem to footnote with any sort of consistency, my apologies
Last Edit: Mar 13, 2018 23:30:00 GMT by gondrembor: Poor footnoting skills and a small typo with the occurrence of "Ithillin" in the Sindarin Text
Sorry for the necro. but I recently noticed the dual verbs and was wondering if -immid could be used as 'you and I' or if there is something else for that because -immid does not include the person you are talking to.
It could mean 'you and I' in the sense of a couple doing something exclusively together, for example Go-badrammid = We (you and I together, but not anyone else) walked together.
What we can't say unfortunately is 'You (singular, external to myself) and I did x'. If that makes sense! -immid is a closed group of 'we' and can't refer to a 'you' that isn't normally part of the 'we'.